We had the chance to sit down with Kurt ‘The Batman’ Pellegrino—veteran UFC fighter and owner of Pellegrino Mixed Martial Arts and Fitness Academy in Belmar, New Jersey—to discuss his journey through grappling and MMA, some of his experiences as a fighter, and his part as a Coach to the next generation of young fighters to come.

So Kurt, what was your first introduction to grappling like?

My dad introduced me to it when I was five years old. He’d wrestled a little bit himself in high school also. When I was first introduced to it though, I knew it was in my blood. Really, I just fell in love with combat, and one on one competition. From a young age, I knew that if I lost it was my fault—not my team’s—and that's what I really love the most about it.

I’ve heard you got your nickname, the ‘Batman’ back before the UFC—what’s the story behind that?

Yea, it’s actually from when I first started wrestling. I had a tournament and my dad had woken up late—so I kind of blame him for this—and he goes, “We're running late buddy. Grab your stuff. Let's go.” But I didn't pack anything the night before like my dad had told me to do, so I just reached into the closet and pulled out a black t-shirt and sweatpants, grabbed my wrestling shoes, put ‘em in a bag, and I went. When I got to the tournament, I saw it was a Batman t-shirt that I’d grabbed. So I didn’t want to be the kid wearing a superhero shirt. I’d never even won a wrestling tournament yet. And I was with a new club called Team Hammer, so I wanted to fit in. 

So my dad said, “We’ll go buy a pair of shorts or a t-shirt.” My choice he says.

So I picked a pair of shorts. It was a black pair of shorts and it had white writing on the bottom of the left leg. It said USA with the Olympic symbol. Then I just turned the Batman shirt inside out.

And so I actually won my first wrestling tournament wearing that Batman t-shirt that I still have today. Ever since then, I've always worn it to every grappling match; every wrestling match I've ever done.

Do you still have it?

Francis Marshall—one of my students—wears it now for his wrestling matches.

How’s the luck been carrying over?

Well, he won my old Region from high school this year. He knocked his opponent out in his debut MMA fight, won his second too. And has another coming up. So pretty well so far.

I’d say so. And what’s one of your favorite memories from wrestling through high school yourself?

Man, honestly, I really have so many. I was very blessed to have had a lot of great accomplishments. But I think my best memory was losing in the state final my senior year. Even though some people think it's, you know, terrible. And that’s alright. But being 38 years old, I really contribute everything I am today because I lost the state final my junior and my senior year. And being older, and more mature, I realize that if it wasn't for that I probably would have, you know, just had a normal job and just would have settled and been happy. And losing made me want to, you know, fix that, erase that mistake and erase that bad memory. Now, years later there's not a day that goes by where it doesn't ruin my day and haunt my minutes and my hours and seconds because I wish it never happened. But that's probably still one of the better memories because I remember it like it was yesterday, and it made me who I am.

So that's pretty interesting—that you say it's your best memory, but at the same time, you still describe it as something that haunts you daily. What's that like?

Imagine being afraid of clowns. Then every day you wake up, and you see one, and you can't get away from it.

Every time you see an old wrestler, you think of that.

You know, the thing I only wanted to be in this whole world? It wasn't to be the president or to be a UFC fighter—I only wanted to be a New Jersey state high school champion. I was an eighth-grade state champ, I won the junior freestyle and Greco state championships…but that was the last one I wanted to win was in high school. I wanted that more than I wanted to be an Olympic wrestler. I wanted to be a New Jersey state champion, and I went there and lost two years in a row in the final by one point.

[He laughs]

I didn't think about it all day today until this interview so now it's like I'm seeing a bunch of, you know—the worst things you could ever possibly think of are going through my head right now. 

Yeah, but at the same time, it sounds like you know this is one of the things—like you said—that defined your life and created who you are today. 

It did. So on my way home now, I'm thinking about what tournament I can win, how can I train harder. And I'm 38 years old. It’s like, it's slowly killing my body [he laughs again] because I just want to keep going. To do something so amazing that that nightmare’s out of my head. But even when I win something so amazing I’m like, “I never won that big shot.” That's the only one wanted.

So what would you say to someone else who missed their big shot?

The measure of a human being is how you deal with adversity. If you work your butt off and you dream big, then it’s not really failing if you don’t reach your goals. It's about what you do afterward. if you give up on it, then you're giving up on yourself. And that can really tell you a lot about someone.

I know this a guy named Dan O’Cone, who’s my hero—my whole life this guy just beat me up and took me down over and over and over and over and over and over again.

And I always tried to take him down. Even losing every day, I always tried. Every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday—he would take me down over and over and over again. I couldn't beat him. He was a college guy, I was a high school kid.

Now, I'm 38 and he trains at my academy. And he's a purple belt. When we wrestle on our feet though he still takes me down. But I’ve never stopped trying.

[Kurt leans in a bit] You know…I beat him in jiu-jitsu now though. Now the tables have turned. I kick his butt and I'm very happy about it.

But really though—if you just give up and accept the fact that you’re never going to win, then what's the point of doing anything?

And after high school, did you wrestle in college?

I did. At Gloucester Community School. I was ranked eighth in the country. And I ended up failing my first semester, which is impressive because I failed every single subject—and I was actually going to class. Everybody thinks I wasn’t. But I really did.

Which, I was really upset about it. Because I won the Trenton State Open, and I won some other tournaments. And I would have—I believe in my heart of hearts that I was made for college wrestling. And I think I would have—I believe in my eyes, I would have won the Nationals once or twice. And in my eyes, I think I would have won an Olympic gold medal. Because I never dreamed small. I dreamed about fighting in the UFC back when fighting in the UFC was worth fighting in.

How so?

When I was fighting in the UFC. It kind of meant something. It was where the toughest of the toughest fought–like fighting in Pride, you know? If you got into Pride, or you got into the UFC, you were meant to be there. You were the toughest regional guy around. You didn't just have a 5-0 record, you were like 12-0, you were like 24-3. You won every grappling tournament; you had three belts; you had to be the toughest around. 

Now—right when I retired—they were letting WWE people in the UFC.

They were letting people in because they had an image. They were letting people in because the guy’s shredded and super handsome, or the guy has a great following on the underground forums, and he just makes fun of people all the time—I just kind of felt like MMA and the UFC was one of the greatest sports industries to fight in, and I just feel like they kind of lost their way and kind of went commercial.

Like Ronda Rousey–you know, here's her image of being this ultra star who was portrayed as a bully. And she fought all these girls that weren't at her level, and she was marketed as the greatest female fighter, pound for pound the best the UFC has ever seen. But she never fought many on her level. Now, I’m not taking anything away from Ronda Rousey—she'll probably kick my ass. But then you have people like the president of the UFC saying that Cris Cyborg is this horrible person and that she’ll never fight in the UFC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but now Chris Cyborg fights in the UFC and she's the pound-for-pound best fighter in the world. She's the greatest because after someone realized how to beat Rhonda, now she's out and she's a WWE superstar. And now Chris Cyborg is in there. Well, she should have been there since the beginning. 

And say what you want about Conor McGregor, but his mouth got him a fight with Floyd Mayweather. Did real boxing experience get him that fight with Floyd Mayweather? No. Money did. The UFC did.

Nate Diaz and Nick Diaz—they're actually really good at boxing you know, they're both super good. They've tried to fight boxing, but the UFC wouldn't let them because they're in a contract. How is that fair? Well, I just don't understand that part.

Now listen, I'm a nothing. I’m nobody, I’m just a guy who was lucky enough to fight in a company that was the greatest company in the world to fight for. And I'm not fighting anymore, so I'm just a guy on the outside looking in now. 

But look at Khabib too—that dude’s a savage. Why isn't he fighting on the top bill? He beats people up and talks s*** when he's beating people up. He doesn’t sit in between rounds. He talks s*** to the commentators. He tells people—Please tap out, I don't want to hurt you. How come it took this long for that guy to get a title shot? Somebody tell me—why, is he not good enough? He's a savage. He’s a savage animal. I wouldn’t even want to arm wrestle or thumb wrestle Khabib, he’d probably break my thumb off.

And again—I’m just the guy that was lucky enough to be there before those guys were there.

Frankie Edgar, another one—there's a legend of New Jersey. How many times does Frankie Edgar have to win a fight to get a title shot? And then his opponent gets hurt and he ends up losing, unfortunately. But he's going to go and win what, like another 18 fights in a row and not get a title shot because he’s not a s*** talker?

It’s just…when I was there man if you won four fights in a row—title shot. Number one contender. You deserve it. You're the man, you know? And now it's like…you let people in like CM Punk.

He's in the UFC over how many guys that could be in the UFC? Like Steve Regman—one of my pro fighters. CM Punk is in Steve Regman’s spot. That guy was a WWE guy. He doesn't deserve to be there—work your way up man, work your way up.

Or what about people at high levels in other combat sports like Judo and boxing, and now they’re training MMA—why do they have to even do one fight before they get in the UFC then if you're letting other people in like that? Just like they’re letting Mayweather in too.

You know it’s just when I was there, you had to earn your right to get there. You had to beat people up, and you had to have a long list of wins, and a long history of knowledge of what you're doing.

That's what it was, to me. It was the greatest sport, the greatest industry in the world. Now it's like going to McDonald's…it’s like going to McDonald's. That's how I feel, you know, it stinks—that I feel that way, but I was there when it was only about the fighting. Now it’s—you have an image or you have a big mouth, then you got more of a shot.

Anything in particular that you would recommend to young guys and girls who are trying to transition into professional mixed martial arts themselves?

Yeah, do it because you have a dream. Do it because you have a goal. Do it because when you fought professionally in your local events, you didn't need a t-shirt with your name on it, and you didn't care about sponsors. Do it because you want to go out there and get your hand raised. Don’t do it because you’re looking for money.

Do it because you wanna get somewhere, and when you get somewhere, then that kind of money comes. That’s what it’s about—it’s not about making that money now, it’s about making that money at the end of the road. And it’s about doing it because this is it for you, there’s nothing else. 

And when did you first start trying to transition to the UFC yourself?

2000. That was when I started training BJJ [Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu] after college. I was 20. And I worked my butt off and won every grappling tournament you could think of.

Where were you training at the time?

With Renzo [Gracie], and with Ricardo Almeida. 

And how did your transition to MMA go from there?

One of my friends called me the first day I started and said, “Hey, someone’s getting ready for a fight and we're training at the Shore Thing Wrestling Club with Vinny Santaniello. Come in, we train UFC.” And I’m like, what’s UFC? Like, I had no idea. And he goes, “Oh, you know, stuff, like cage fighting.” So I was like, okay great, so I'm gonna just show up there and I'm going to help this kid out and we’re going to fight. I’m in.

So we [get there and] put Chuck Norris MMA gloves on. That's how old these gloves were. I mean, these were old school days. Chuck Norris MMA gloves—that’s what they were called.

And we put what was basically a fencing mask on, it was an old-school NHL gear mask. It hugged your whole entire head and had thick plastic bars going across the face. And I had a 10-minute fight with this guy. A real one. Like, we fought each other. Never had any idea what I was doing and I beat him up really bad and submitted him. And I had no idea what I was doing. Beating him up on our feet, then took him down, then choking him. So I mean, I kicked the crap out of him. And I'm like, “This dude’s 1-0?”

So from that day on, I never stopped.

How about once you got to the UFC—what memory sticks with you the most?

[He sighs] Jesus. Every fight. Every fight I worked my ass off—there wasn't a fight I didn’t and not one that doesn’t stick with me.

When I lost to Nate Diaz though, that sticks with me. Everyone thinks that was such a terrible fight for me, but I really thought it was a good fight. I was winning in the beginning of the fight I thought, and then Nate did what Nate did and he caught me in that triangle. And what happened?—because of that fight I actually grew into being the better martial artist I am today. Because it taught me again to just never to give up and to always keep trying.

Whether I’m getting choked or whether my arm is about to break.

I went on a four-fight win streak after that. And I fought Josh Neer, a big name in the game. He had my arm, and he popped my arm three times. Anyone I know would have tapped at that time. But I was like, screw it, he already popped my arm.

That fight sticks with me too. And I won four fights and performance of the night honors. So really, every fight meant something to me.

Any come back in the future? 

[He laughs] Never. 

And what’s life been like since opening up your academy in…?

2008. Or seven. Can’t remember. 

As I started transitioning out of MMA, I concentrated more on teaching. And doing grappling tournaments the best I can too. With some, you know, bad knees and father time catching up to me. A bad doctor kind of screwed me up also and I'm just trying to do tournament's the best I can from here on. You know what I mean man, it’s the best I got. I was 10 times better before all that stuff. But, it’s just age. And this sport is in my blood. I can't stop. I hurt every day, but it's the gyms in Marlboro and Belmar that keep me going. People wanting to learn, people wanting to compete, people wanting to get better. The smiles and the old friends like Rob are what’s really great. That's kinda why I do it. Always has been.

But, I do love to compete too. I was…I was born to compete.

I wasn't born to wear a shirt and tie.

So what about the other side of it…what about the future for Coach Kurt then?

You know, right now that’s what I’m really enjoying doing the most—teaching. Especially my students. Seeing their faces when they learn jiu-jitsu, and it’s not even about teaching them crazy stuff. I teach my kids one thing—how to win. I teach them that if [they] lose, it's okay to lose but to learn from [their] loss. I’m teaching my kids how to stay calm and focused in class and competition. So if they run into a bully that’s trying to beat them up—they're going to take him down and be able to hold and control him in a position. That's what jiu-jitsu is to me, and my kids are very tough at that.

But this goes so much further than physical stuff. It’s also for them to learn how to learn, and for them to be respectful, and for them to really love whatever it is that they're doing. 

And I let my kids know in the beginning that they’ll go off and win tournaments and lose tournaments, but they’ll always come back to the gym and work on their mistakes no matter what. And that’s life. That’s really the greatest lesson.

Inside the Grappler’s Mind

What's your favorite word?

Gold.

What's your least favorite word?

Losing.

If you could grapple anyone in history, who would it be?

I already got to, Marcelo Garcia.

What's your greatest talent, other than grappling?

Being a loyal friend, father, and husband.

What's your biggest regret?

Not winning a New Jersey state wrestling championship.

What's your greatest fear?

Losing.

Are you a Jedi or Sith?

What?

Is a hot dog a sandwich—If not, then what is it?

It’s a sub, cause it’s on a bun.

If you replaced your whole house piece by piece, when is it no longer your old house?

It's always my house.

How do you hope to leave the world a better place than you found it?

By always smiling.